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GeneralMatthew |
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Post subject: The SH2 Roman Mod
 Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 09:59 AM #103577
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Quest Moderator
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 3058
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
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ShadowLord and I are embarking on an attempt to make a SH2 Roman mod.
Why you may ask? The Romans arne't even related to the Middle ages.
But the Middle ages and the constant strife came about directly because of the decline of the Roman empire, and the people having to defend and care for themselves.
And Byzantiniam (the Eastern half of the Roman empire) was a big part in the Early Crusades, and they kept Europe safe from the Arabs until the Europeans could defend themselves against the Arabs.
So far we are just in the brainstorming stage, but I have done a legionary, it is the swordsman with the pikeman body reskinned, take a look.
We are thinking of using the Warrior monks shield, as it is rectangle) but it may not be big enough.
But we will see. |
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Lord_Amik |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 10:11 AM #103578
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Ex Quest Moderator
Joined: Aug 30, 2004
Posts: 1254
Location: I forgot to turn right at Vance! Well whereever I am now I like it!
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Wow that is spectular! How did you get a pikeman to wield a sword!
Edit: Also I have a good idea for a spear throwing legion. Combine an outlaw spear to perhaps a swordmen and perhaps you will get a spear thrower who goes in for close range with a sword! |
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Knight of St. George
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Dragonheart_Killer |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 12:16 PM #103582
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Administrator and Resident Crusader
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: 1491
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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WOW!
That is outstanding. It looks so...Professional like someone from FF did it!!
Might I suggest adding some roman symbols to perhaps the hat or something.
And also, is it possible to merge more than 2 skins? Because if so, then you could also add a feather type feature onto the soldier from the knight.
-DK |
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The most important is not to have, globaly, more soldiers than your enemy, it's to have more soldiers than your enemy at the Choke Point.
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Lord_Amik |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 12:39 PM #103584
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Ex Quest Moderator
Joined: Aug 30, 2004
Posts: 1254
Location: I forgot to turn right at Vance! Well whereever I am now I like it!
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| I was thinking about this and I have come to the conclusion that if you use a crossbowman leather vest you could come up with something quite intresting. Than you could paint over the vest for some pretty cool results. |
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Knight of St. George
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Ltn_Alex_Thomas |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 02:13 PM #103587
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Joined: Jul 01, 2005
Posts: 530
Location: Stuck in the mud
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GeneralMatthew, you've got to teach me how to do these mods! 
Heres a tip, make the swords shorter and sharper, to make the Gladicus (hoping I haven't spelt it wrong) and the armour can be segmented. |
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 02:47 PM #103589
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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| Is that a combination of the pikeman model with the swordsman weapons? Very nice! |
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Lord-Aaron-VII-of-Windsor |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 03:13 PM #103590
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Tutorial Team Member
Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 868
Location: Wiltshire, UK
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Alex, SP  as my teacher would write. It's gladius. Not gladicus
HicRic, GM said it was the swordsman with the pikeman body reskinned. 
By the way, this mod looks really promising. Infact, it looks more than promising, it looks awesome.
If you want a proper breakdown of a Roman legions (before the Marian reformations as they are nice and simple) then I can provide a bit of help.
Hastati: Up front infantry. The youngest and most 'chipper' men of a Roman legion. It was up to them to get into the fray first to bog the enemy down. They were armed with the Gladius and Pilae (Javelins.)
Principes: Men considered to be in their prime of life (30s) Principes are more experienced than Hastati. They come behind the Hastati in a Roman line and are more heavily armoured. They also carry a Gladius and Pilae same as the Hastati.
Triarii: The most experienced men of a legion. Veterans of many battles, Triarii were the elite. Given their age and ability, there were never as many Triarii in a cohort as the Hastati or Principes. Unlike the latter two, they carried spears instead of the normal Gladius/Pilae.
Velites: Basically javelin throwers. Lightly armoured, their job was to harass and pelt the enemy from afar with javelins, demoralising them and causing early casualties. They were never really meant to get into hand to hand combat and usually saw the very first engagement of a battle.
Just thought I'd pointlessly kill a bit of time helping you out (I hope) |
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Extraordinary Events are Only Extraordinary Because they are Performed by Ordinary People.
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GeneralMatthew |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 04:08 PM #103594
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Quest Moderator
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 3058
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Woah! This must be a poular topic, let me see if I can reply to everything...
| Quote: | Wow that is spectular! How did you get a pikeman to wield a sword!
Edit: Also I have a good idea for a spear throwing legion. Combine an outlaw spear to perhaps a swordmen and perhaps you will get a spear thrower who goes in for close range with a sword! |
Amik, I have considered this, but figured the outlaw is to weak in hand to hand combat to be a regular legionary, but know that I know that the velites had the same 'mission' as the outlaws, if SL agrees we can again use the pikes body or something else to make them the velites.
| Quote: | WOW!
That is outstanding. It looks so...Professional like someone from FF did it!!
Might I suggest adding some roman symbols to perhaps the hat or something.
And also, is it possible to merge more than 2 skins? Because if so, then you could also add a feather type feature onto the soldier from the knight.
-DK |
With the new one (see below) I would advise using the roman crest by with it (We may include it in the mod if that is ok Naito_Mudtuzi)
I might be able to work something to put on the helmet...
About the feather, that would be great, but it is impossible for me to combine GR2's (And if it was possible I wouldn't know how  )
And that is what would be needed, not neccesarily just the skin.
| Quote: | | I was thinking about this and I have come to the conclusion that if you use a crossbowman leather vest you could come up with something quite intresting. Than you could paint over the vest for some pretty cool results. |
That would be cool! I am also thinking of some sort of Roman Cavalry as they used them later on.
| Quote: | GeneralMatthew, you've got to teach me how to do these mods! Crazy
Heres a tip, make the swords shorter and sharper, to make the Gladicus (hoping I haven't spelt it wrong) the armour can be segmented. |
Look here for playing around with the Models or here for the skinning.
About the sword, hmm, I could use the Warrior Monks, I beleive it is shorter...
And about the segment, if you look closely you can see the segments, but I need to realy reduce the shine.
| Quote: | | Is that a combination of the pikeman model with the swordsman weapons? Very nice! |
Yep, it is!
| Quote: | Alex, SP as my teacher would write. It's gladius. Not gladicus :Wink:
HicRic, GM said it was the swordsman with the pikeman body reskinned. Very Happy
By the way, this mod looks really promising. Infact, it looks more than promising, it looks awesome.
If you want a proper breakdown of a Roman legions (before the Marian reformations as they are nice and simple) then I can provide a bit of help.... |
Thanks for that info, I did not repost it all to keep my post from being to long... 
Much help because it basicaly helped me figure out how to get the javelins in!
Thanks all for all your comments, and now the upgraded legionary (like my crest?) Is the shield large enough? |
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kookookaed |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 06:21 PM #103596
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Joined: Mar 01, 2005
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Great job. Is there any way to get chariots?
Those are pretty sweet shoes. |
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SirHugh |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 07:29 PM #103598
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Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 222
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
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| Whoa! I love that mod. you guys need to make the shields bigger though. Keep this updated, because I like it! |
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Dragonheart_Killer |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 11, 2006 - 08:42 PM #103601
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Administrator and Resident Crusader
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: 1491
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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It looks great.
I personally feel that the rectangle shields would looks better on a unit with a spear. Perhaps the Outlaw and Pikeman Mix?
And the shield also has to be a bit bigger.
Other than that, it looks amazing and it is quite difficult for me to take my eyes of of it! 
-DK |
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The most important is not to have, globaly, more soldiers than your enemy, it's to have more soldiers than your enemy at the Choke Point.
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Dragonheart_Killer |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 03:19 AM #103612
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Administrator and Resident Crusader
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Here are a few Pics that I thought might help with the design process:
Hope these help in the design and sorry for double posting.
-DK |
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The most important is not to have, globaly, more soldiers than your enemy, it's to have more soldiers than your enemy at the Choke Point.
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ShadowLord |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 03:59 AM #103616
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Tutorial Team Member
Joined: May 28, 2005
Posts: 1585
Location: Gosport, England.
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Well DK the spear units actually had the round shields so they could run faster from the enemy to get to a good throwing point for their javalins.
We have only just started this mod so we are just doing a draft copy then adding the roman bits in when we think something would look good for a unit. |
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My Live was.. Never normal.. My name is Shadow... I live in the Shadows...
I am Lord of the Shadows!
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Earl_Listibald |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 04:04 AM #103617
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Grandmaster Of The Keep
Joined: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 4279
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| Quote: | | Well DK the spear units actually had the round shields so they could run faster from the enemy to get to a good throwing point for their javalins. |
Sorry, but that is nonsense. No shield was ever designed to fascilitate "running away" nor is it true that "spear-units" (call them legionaires) carried a round shield.....
DK's legionaire is entirely clad correctly for a 1st to 2nd century roman soldier of the line (I.e. legionaire).
At the end of the 2nd century they started to look like this:
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<a href="http://www.stronghold-knights.com/site/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=4371">Guide to Uploading Your Maps</a>
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GeneralMatthew |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 12:31 PM #103655
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Quest Moderator
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 3058
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Thanks for the pics EL, DK!
I would make the shield better, but as noted above I can not change the GR2's, (that is what the models are). So it will have to stay like that. Also I have no idea if you can add a shield to the outlaw model, as it does not begin with one. This GR2 modding cannot do everything you all know!
Also, we cannot combine special things, so there is no way to get the swordsman to throw a javelin.. 
I was thinking we might be able to use some other GR2 from the game (maybe part of a builing?) but I am not sure.
One thing we can do is delete the shield so it has none, but I am not sure if we should do that or not (for cosmetic reasons)
Kookkokaed, unfortunatley there is no way to add chariots...
What are those round things? Is it a shield? |
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ShadowLord |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 01:12 PM #103660
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Tutorial Team Member
Joined: May 28, 2005
Posts: 1585
Location: Gosport, England.
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Well I am pretty sure they are, from what I can tell, from RTW and other Roman stuff is hat the Velites had round shields and they were the javalin throwers but I'm not sure they could be egg, shaped like EL pic?
@ Here's a pic with the pikeman aka legionaire without a lot of shine, |
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I am Lord of the Shadows!
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Dragonheart_Killer |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 01:49 PM #103666
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Administrator and Resident Crusader
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: 1491
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Looking good.
I was wondering whether this mod will be covering the buildings as well.
Because if so, then I have a suggesstion:
-Include a lot of colour. Especially colours like red and yellow with bold lines of black and off-white.
There is TV series on HBO called "Rome" where it is about the roman empire. (hence the name!  ) I saw the making of it and they said the when they researched rome, they found out that it was a very very colourful place with silks and rose petals etc.
So, I would suggest using a lot of vibrant colours to bring out the strong points of the structures.
Hopefully, that is possible!
-DK |
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<hr>
The most important is not to have, globaly, more soldiers than your enemy, it's to have more soldiers than your enemy at the Choke Point.
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isaac331 |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 01:54 PM #103667
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Joined: Apr 17, 2005
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| Quote: | | Also, we cannot combine special things, so there is no way to get the swordsman to throw a javelin.. |
Actually Matthew you can, you have to change a lot of files but its possible. |
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ShadowLord |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 01:57 PM #103668
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Tutorial Team Member
Joined: May 28, 2005
Posts: 1585
Location: Gosport, England.
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| I looked into one of the pikeman's dds files Pikeman_bits.dds and it has the helmet so we could modify the helmet |
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My Live was.. Never normal.. My name is Shadow... I live in the Shadows...
I am Lord of the Shadows!
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GeneralMatthew |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 01:58 PM #103669
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Quest Moderator
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 3058
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Thanks DK!
Really Isaac! Cool, could you explain how? I know the animation stuff, but I do not let messing with stuff I do not know if it will hurt my computer or not...
Edit: Why does it say they are outlaws down at the bottom? |
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isaac331 |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 02:02 PM #103670
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Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 422
Location: In my very confortable chair.
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| That will remain as a secret until I finish that Swordman-Outlaw entirely with sound, I dont like to leave my projects unfinished you know. |
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GeneralMatthew |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 02:06 PM #103671
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Quest Moderator
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Oh well, might experiment with it myslef. We will see.
Anyways, glad to see so far it is going good.
Oh yes, it looks like that one swordsman is about to throw his sword...
One thing, when this javelin hits, does it damage the enemy? |
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isaac331 |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 02:13 PM #103672
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Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 422
Location: In my very confortable chair.
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| When the Swordman is ready to throw he throws his sword but when he launch it it turn into a javelin its strange, and yes when the javelin hits it damages the enemy I killed an armed peasnt but I couldn't take the picture. Ask me by PM if you want to know how to do it I was just adding suspense. |
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Ancile |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 02:18 PM #103673
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Joined: Oct 29, 2005
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This is great! I can't wait for this mod to open up to all of us!
I was thinking that a fine addition would be the Cataphract unit, which could substitute the mounted Knight (however, he'll have to wield a sword instead of a lance). And maybe, instead of the dismounted Knight, you can have a Praetorian Guardsman (for a unit that requires a lot of honor...) A major drawback is that they can't turn against you if you make bad decisions
What about the auxilia? Will there be any choices for those?
Keep up the good work! |
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GeneralMatthew |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 05:45 PM #103689
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Quest Moderator
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 3058
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Thanks Ancile. Unfortunatley anything we change (say we do change the knight) then it will still cost the same as a knight, and be as powerful as one.
We cannot change the power of it...
Yes the Auxiallry, I think we are planning on doing this, but it would have to be based on the models we have (mixed around if needed of course).
Thanks Isaac, check your inbox. :drool: |
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isaac331 |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 08:04 PM #103703
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Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Posts: 422
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| Quote: | | a fine addition would be the Cataphract unit, which could substitute the mounted Knight (however, he'll have to wield a sword instead of a lance). |
Was you thinking in something in something like this.....I will stop moding this things as it is not my mod.  |
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LordBritian |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 08:08 PM #103704
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V.I.P. and Busy Bee
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 2173
Location: I know that Great Britain, and Britian in my name are different. I did that on purpose :)
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Well, I haven't a clue how issac331 is doing his animation, but to lead you guys on a bit, try looking for these.
In my travels, I can across a file that seems to list all of the available animations (like the music volumes file).
Also, for each unit, there is another *.uni file that if you open with a hex editor, seems to list all the animations for a particular model. Any hardy soul should see if when you edit this file, it changes the animations that are possible.
Beyond that, I have no idea how you would tell the swordsmen to actually throw the spear, but I bet even that could be resolved by renaming some actions. Have fun.
Lastly, I bet we are all collaborators here, and I think that the more quality help people can give, then better all of these Mods will be. |
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isaac331 |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 08:12 PM #103705
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| Britian you hitted the core of the animations, I open the .uni file with notepad (I use it to open any coded file) It says wich GR2 files are assignated to the DDS model, then if you rename the GR2 file let say the outlaw GR2 and name it swordsman.GR2 then rename the DDS of the outlaw and rename the DDS from the swordman to outlaw, you will have the Javelin Thrower Swordman. |
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LordBritian |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 12, 2006 - 10:08 PM #103715
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V.I.P. and Busy Bee
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 2173
Location: I know that Great Britain, and Britian in my name are different. I did that on purpose :)
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| With that setup though, the unit will have the hit points of a bandit, which is a bit low. Can you just add the javelin throw animation to the overall swordsmen files/animations? |
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He is no fool, who gives what he can not keep, to gain what he must not lose.
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: The SH2 Roman Mod
Posted: Mar 13, 2006 - 05:28 AM #103726
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
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| Oh wow, totally stunning work going on here. There have been some real breakthroughs in terms of modding so far, I can't wait to see what will happen next! |
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