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LordBritian |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
 Posted: Nov 04, 2005 - 09:50 AM #92552
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V.I.P. and Busy Bee
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 2173
Location: I know that Great Britain, and Britian in my name are different. I did that on purpose :)
Status: Offline
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Actually, Lord Gray and grandliner1912, you may be on to something. Has anyone noticed that William was given a new castle in v1.3.1? I did because I have looked at every AI file and every binary portion of them for 3 months now!!!! There are now two to choose from, william01 and william02. Please, someone check to see if the computer will use the extra files (03, 04, 05 even). It would be great if it does!!!
Remember how the SHC has 8 AI castles per opponent. Maybe we can get there too, with SH2. The answer is just waiting for someone to try it.  |
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He is no fool, who gives what he can not keep, to gain what he must not lose.
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 04, 2005 - 10:08 AM #92558
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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That would be ace!!
Oh, and yes, the program cannot be maximised and the window cannot be altered in size at all. It's a simple matter for me to allow it to do so, but not so simple to ensure the user interface doesn't go mad and have buttons rearranging themselves all over the place.
For a while now there has been an idea for an upgrade to the user interface..should there be enough interest in the program we may eventually release a second version that uses (for example) the 'toolbar' you see at the bottom of the screen in-game in SH2. And then the map would take up most of the window, allow resizing, maximising etc.
I am frankly amazed that nobody has complained about my horrible, horrible zooming function that scrolls as you zoom in and out.  (that too would be fixed if we went with the second version). I'd also be able to change a few things so it run better...at the moment it can get a bit sluggish when you load a big castle like barclay01.aic (at least it does on my computer). |
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grandliner1912 |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 04, 2005 - 04:32 PM #92590
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Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 42
Status: Offline
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Ok, was just wondering... Thought maybe it was my machine. I am running on Windows Media Center off a plasma tv for a monitor. So I have to choose a widescreen res. I am running 1280x720 now, and the very bottom of the window gets cut off. Still functional though. Certainly not complaining... Very cool tool!!! 
I am wondering if you temporarly rename the ai files for a particual character, say William. Then add another in sequence. Like you said, an 03. If the game loads it then you know if will. Then again it may not see the first two and as a result generate a new one. Worth a shot.  |
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 04, 2005 - 07:02 PM #92603
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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It might be worth trying this:
Leave william01 and william02 untouched, and create wiliam03. Make it distinctive so you'll easily recognise it. Then play a game against 7 Williams...probability theory suggests that if the third castle is 'seen' by the game, it'll be in one of those seven!
Make sure it is a basic castle with nothing too crazy, or the computer might decide not to use it and you'd draw the wrong conclusion that 03 didn't get seen.
I might try it myself tomorrow actually..it's 1am now! |
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LordAussie |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 04, 2005 - 07:38 PM #92613
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Tutorial Team Member
Joined: Apr 26, 2005
Posts: 291
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
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| Well I tried calling one william03 and he used the castle in game. |
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Lord_Michael |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 04, 2005 - 07:52 PM #92615
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Administrator Emeritus and Sage
Joined: Aug 24, 2003
Posts: 5731
Location: Suffolk, England
Status: Offline
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Lord Aussie, you are a bounder!
That is remarkable - I think. |
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LordBritian |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 04, 2005 - 10:56 PM #92632
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V.I.P. and Busy Bee
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 2173
Location: I know that Great Britain, and Britian in my name are different. I did that on purpose :)
Status: Offline
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Great News. That is extraordinary.
By the way, did any notice that HicRic called the ingame Inn, the Dancing Bear Inn?
I didn't even notice until last night.  |
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He is no fool, who gives what he can not keep, to gain what he must not lose.
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Lord_Gray |
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Post subject: AI Refused to Sell?
Posted: Nov 05, 2005 - 12:44 AM #92636
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Tutorial Team Member
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: 138
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
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For some reason my market wasn't working with an AI I made, first time, yes it was the market missing, but the second time I had no idea what it was. I rushed off to make this topic, thinking I couldnt POSSIBLY mess up myself and it was the games fault, only to find after a bit further testing that it was something I did.
EDIT: Somehow it was just the AI I made, made another and tested it and worked fine, market was present in both.. Guess I managed to mess something else up in the other one, and I guess I should of double checked before posting. Probably got some important priority wrong. Lesson learned, and just goes to show that its not always the most obvious thing thats went wrong! |
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 05, 2005 - 04:17 AM #92652
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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It's just an idea, but perhaps you need the market to be one of the very first buildings placed? Check some of the AIC files that come with the game, if I remember rightly most of them place the market first or very close to first (after the keep).
| LordBritian wrote: | Great News. That is extraordinary.
By the way, did any notice that HicRic called the ingame Inn, the Dancing Bear Inn?
I didn't even notice until last night. |
When Aubergine went through the file and made it more tidy (giving things their proper name, capitilisation and so on) he slipped that easter egg in, I believe. I freely admit I didn't notice either!
Aubergine, you scoundrel. 
Lord Aussie, thanks for going to the trouble to try the ideas out! Amazing that it works! Sounds like we can add more castles to each AI quite easily, if we choose. |
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grandliner1912 |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 05, 2005 - 06:23 AM #92657
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Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 42
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Very Cool!  |
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kingofcrusaders |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 05, 2005 - 06:48 AM #92661
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Joined: Dec 12, 2004
Posts: 101
Location: long ago...in a galaxy far far away
Status: Offline
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| Yes, an editor built by scratch is indeed an accomplishment. And, since noone is responding to my Stronghold Sprite Sheets topic, I'll ask here. The .sav to .map trick is a way to alter uncustom files, so would it be possible to make an editor that opens the skin files, allowing us to place customfiles of the same type in the folder, thus creating brand new units for the game? |
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 05, 2005 - 09:21 AM #92665
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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| kingofcrusaders wrote: | | Yes, an editor built by scratch is indeed an accomplishment. And, since noone is responding to my Stronghold Sprite Sheets topic, I'll ask here. The .sav to .map trick is a way to alter uncustom files, so would it be possible to make an editor that opens the skin files, allowing us to place customfiles of the same type in the folder, thus creating brand new units for the game? |
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If you want to replace existing skins, you can just use Windows to move files around, no need for a custom editor. But if you're asking for a way to add entirely new units to the game, that's a 100% no I'm afraid. |
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king_Arthur |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 05, 2005 - 09:42 AM #92667
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Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 13
Status: Offline
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| I have made a castle for the queen and was wondering if anyone could test it and give me any ideas on how to improve it |
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Xzever |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 05, 2005 - 10:10 PM #92701
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Moderator of SHC and Contests
Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 483
Location: The Sunny Side of the Moon
Status: Offline
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Great work, HicRic!!! I have yet to download it, but from what I've heard, I can't wait to get around to it!
And as Richard the Lionheart says...
Good work, my Lord! We are royally impressed with your acomplishments!
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_________________
The Archers and Spearmen Campaign - Completed 77 of 80 Missions *I'm getting there...*
Xzever - sounds like 'sever' (as in, to sever one's arm off), but with a 'z' instead of 's'!
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 08, 2005 - 03:31 AM #92951
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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| king_Arthur wrote: | | I have made a castle for the queen and was wondering if anyone could test it and give me any ideas on how to improve it |
If you send it along to me [rfwarlock@aol.com] I'll have a look. |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 08, 2005 - 04:19 PM #92996
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Administrator Emeritus and Cede Guru
Joined: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 2098
Location: Portsmouth, Merry Olde England
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King Arthur, your AI castle has been received to the site, it'll be tested as soon as possible.
Looks like we need another download category ... |
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LordBritian |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 09, 2005 - 03:01 PM #93119
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V.I.P. and Busy Bee
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 2173
Location: I know that Great Britain, and Britian in my name are different. I did that on purpose :)
Status: Offline
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I am not sure I am ready to download any yet, but I finally had time to play with our fun new toy. Here is what I came up with.
<center><img src="http://www.stronghold-knights.com/site/album/LordBritian/LBCastle.jpg"></center>
I am trying to come from two points. I can make a cool looking castle, that the AI will probably never finish. But if I am too stingy on the design (lettting the AI erect it quickly) it will probably not withstand any kind of assault. So the parameters I placed on myself is that the AI must enclose the keep before running out of their initial stone supply when set at the max rank (that being 100 stone units). Maximizing the use of stone buildings and their natural walls help accomplish this task.
You can't see the priority settings, but due to the layout, non of the towers (which are stone eaters) are needed to enclose the castle. I have yet to test this design in game, but I thought I would post my first go at it.  |
_________________
He is no fool, who gives what he can not keep, to gain what he must not lose.
Last edited by LordBritian on Nov 11, 2005 - 12:21 PM; edited 1 time in total
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 09, 2005 - 04:12 PM #93124
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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| Seems like a sound theory, I look forward to hearing how it plays! Who is it for? |
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ZdenekPro |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 09, 2005 - 05:18 PM #93136
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Joined: Sep 06, 2004
Posts: 130
Location: Volcae
Status: Offline
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I take off one's hat to great work which done by HicRic & co. on reverse-forward engineering.
This part drove me to little suggestion for computer nonsymmetrical castle placing and design:
consist in declaration (agreement, assigning) north direction (side) of castle space as front direction (to opponent).
When player will enter to kingmaker then program
for individual computer player
determines direction from their keep to their opponents according to alliances,
and turns castle as the case stands.
In better implementation program will evaluate access path (on some maps is direct way impassable and potential attack will come abeam).
Existing AI castle layout in .aic files may go unnoticed, proposal not need addition to file data structure. This improvement not takes computer time, is very simple and fast.
Addition of second parameter imparting direction to source (rear space) is imaginable. Castle designer may shape different castle layout for rear on the left, bottom, right, and program will select from this 3 variants according to position in map. (Second direction parameter for castle defining file must be explicit, cannot be implicit as first parameter = front direction.) |
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 11, 2005 - 08:33 AM #93235
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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Thanks for the compliment ZdenekPro, I hope you enjoy using the program.
As hard as I try, I'm afraid I can't quite work out what you're suggesting?  |
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ZdenekPro |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 11, 2005 - 09:30 AM #93238
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Joined: Sep 06, 2004
Posts: 130
Location: Volcae
Status: Offline
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Yes, making of suggestion above is work for FF primarily, needs Sh2 source code little modification, no change in Editor. I placed it here instead of the Wish list because it relates to thread subject.
Your Editor adjustment will useful in case of adding second parameter (direction to source – rear space – from keep) as new castle map (plan) property recognized by Sh2… |
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Dragonheart_Killer |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 11, 2005 - 11:00 AM #93248
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Administrator and Resident Crusader
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: 1491
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Status: Offline
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Wonderful looking castle, LB!
Hmm.....looks like mabye we need to start a new thread for new AI castles?
-DK |
_________________
<hr>
The most important is not to have, globaly, more soldiers than your enemy, it's to have more soldiers than your enemy at the Choke Point.
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LordBritian |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 11, 2005 - 03:08 PM #93264
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V.I.P. and Busy Bee
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 2173
Location: I know that Great Britain, and Britian in my name are different. I did that on purpose :)
Status: Offline
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Well I obviously have the dark buildings problem, but that aside the castle, after a few more updates, seems to work well. I have updated the above picture for comparison. Below is a picture of Lady Seren using my design. Click to enlarge.
<center><a target="_blank" href="http://www.stronghold-knights.com/site/album/LordBritian/In_Game_Castle.jpg"><img src="http://www.stronghold-knights.com/site/album/LordBritian/In_Game_Castle.sized.jpg"></a></center>
I copied my file into Seren, the Bull and Lord Grey to get a feel for how each would do. In most cases, the AI was able to enclose their castle in 5 or 6 months. I added some spike traps in front of the gatehouses just in case those took a while to complete. The mangonels were used quite effectively once placed, and as you can see, some archers are correctly manning a tower.
Also, I have heard that the AI goes passive when the FireFly AI editor was used, but I have not seen such symptoms with my designs. Lord Gray sieged me quickly, and the Bull and Lady Seren actively fought over an estate. Catapults and troops were all over the map. I was hoping to make more tests, but ran out of time.
If people are making new AI, it really is a simple matter to test them. Just set up a Kingmaker with a few of your new AI opponents and see if they attack each other, and complete their castles. Also make sure they attack you. Then make a new game and ally all the new AI together and see if you can beat them.
I am hoping to give more design tips as time progresses and hopefully others will too!
Once again, HicRic, thank you so much for coding up this awesome editor, and to the rest of the gang who helped create this fun little toy. :-) |
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He is no fool, who gives what he can not keep, to gain what he must not lose.
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 11, 2005 - 03:58 PM #93272
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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Awesome, I'm glad it's working well! 5-6 months for an enclosed keep is good!
Does it work so well on the lower resource starts, like 100 gold? I prefer starting low and building up, rather than the twichy-fast game 5K gold brings.
I've heard tales on inactive AI with FFs editor too. I wonder if it's because of the same reasons that normal maps will break: if you place a keep for the AI in the editor, it makes it inactive. So maybe people making custom castles aren't setting the keep to be the first building or something-in which case our editor could also produce 'inactive' castles. |
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Dragonheart_Killer |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 11, 2005 - 04:12 PM #93274
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Administrator and Resident Crusader
Joined: Dec 17, 2003
Posts: 1491
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Status: Offline
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I still think the SHK editor is better.
1st reason: It has SH2 graphics instead of simpler(sort of color coded) graphics.
@LB: That looks awesome LB.
-DK |
_________________
<hr>
The most important is not to have, globaly, more soldiers than your enemy, it's to have more soldiers than your enemy at the Choke Point.
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SimRPGplayer |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 11, 2005 - 04:48 PM #93277
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Moderator and Resident Magic Eraser Guru
Joined: Mar 09, 2005
Posts: 509
Location: Wherever I am, I wish I was here
Status: Offline
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I believe ZdneckPro was saying that it would be nice if the game calculated the shortest distance from one opponent to the other(s) and placed the main gatehouse accordingly, with a better implentation being the shortest path (e.g., keeps close together but seperated by a mountain; it wouldn't place it towards the impassable mountain, which would be the shortest distance, but not path). He also said that it would be nice if the AI used a different castle based on this shortest distance/path.
You could have several different castle layouts based on which way is the best way to get to the enemy keep, and the AI would pick the correct design based on the gatehouse placement of the design. Alternatively, the AI would just rotate an existing design to correctly position the gatehouse.
Looks good LB. Brilliant program, HicRic. |
_________________
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony.
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 11, 2005 - 05:53 PM #93280
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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Oh, I see! Yes, that's a good idea actually, although I doubt it'll get added now. Perhaps a feature for the next Stronghold game! (there better be a next one!) I imagine the next patch will be pretty minor (fix for the dark buildings) and that'll probably be it-there doesn't seem to be much left to patch and they probably need to start work on something which will be sellable (as opposed to more non-revenue-generating patches).
I hope we'll see a SH2:Crusader game or something. A skirmish trail would be heartily welcomed by many!
Anyway, I'm going off into 'wishlist' territory. |
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Ich |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 12, 2005 - 06:22 AM #93317
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Joined: Nov 10, 2005
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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Hi guys,
I was just fooling around with this GREAT editor, but now I have some questions:
1) Could somebody make a tutorial about the flags/defending-points?
2) While the most AI characters have their own Castle-plans, there are a few strange things:
"Olaf" doesnt have his own plans, he seems to use the "small wooden.aic" --> why?
3) Another interesting thing is the fact, that you can find a lot of othe plans, like: "wood and moat" or "large stone", "large wood", "tiny stone1-4"v etc. when does the AI (and which one? ) use this plans? |
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HicRic |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 12, 2005 - 06:58 AM #93320
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Administrator and Resident Whiz Kid
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 1588
Location: England
Status: Offline
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Welcome to SHK, Ich! Good questions.
1) that's definately something we'll do. we'll need to see which points receive what troops, and if it changes with each AI or if it's based on having stone barracks/merc tent etc.. There are also some 'odd' things...nobody has yet figured out what 'flag' is supposed to do (hence the rather random picture it uses ). But yes, we'll want a tutorial on this and other things too.
2) No idea! It seems very odd for FireFly to give some people castles named after themselves, and give others castles which aren't. Perhaps some enterprising individual could try and make a castle called 'olaf01.aic' and see if the game picks it up.
3) Some of these castles appear to be unused in the game. However in the course of making this editor, I noticed that if I broke the AIC file or made it do something stupid, the game would often ignore the aic file and 'fall back' to using one of these other included castles (small stone castle being a favourite it seems). There are also some 'test' castles, but I don't know what they are testing. They're missing some data which causes an error when the ai editor loads them, but much to my surprise the castle's layout still appears...I guess I programmed it better than I realised, so it at least sort of copes with the error.
I'm still amused that the new William castle-the 02 one-has towers facing outwards. Has anyone had the chance to play against it in-game? Does he really do that? |
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Ich |
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Post subject: RE: SHK - SH2 AI CASTLE EDITOR
Posted: Nov 12, 2005 - 07:18 AM #93321
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Joined: Nov 10, 2005
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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Yes these test castles are very strange
I'll try some of these points and post the results....
btw: There is only one bad thing with this editor: I started making a guide about all the AI characters, which troups, which ways to gain honor, castle style, ways of attacking etc... and now its useless 
But hey, many hours of pleasure with good ol' Stronghold series |
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